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Advice on building a shop
grinder, a follow up from our discussion last fall and the ensuing experiment. The piece of 3/4" insulation is still laying on the ground next to the barn. As soon as it thaws from the ground so I can pick it up, I'll see if the ground is frozen under it. It's pretty well frozen-in still.
I'm guessing the ground froze under the board.
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Advice on building a shop
You are getting some good advice here. When I bought my place with a 26 x 43 foot shop, I figured I'd never fill it. Wrong! It's pretty tight right now. Think at least 3-5 years down the road for what you would like to own. Then think of how to maneuver the stuff into it.
Guys have been suggesting taller doors. I highly recommend that. The previous owner had a short door and a tall door. He boxed in the tall door which is my wood shop since that is heated. Problem is my JD 4310 won't fit in the short door with the ROPS up. Not a problem in summer when I exit the back for mowing. Major problem in winter when the short door is my only option.
I also wish he had concreted the whole thing instead of just half. Also would have liked properly sloped floor drains, more electrical outlets (per others you can never have too many) and better lighting.
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Advice on building a shop
Beagle
I am not sure if 3/4 in. will do it.
If you had said 2" I would have bet my
tractor on it. 4'x4' min. x 2".
Let me know if it worked.
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Advice on building a shop
4' x 8' sheet of 3/4" insulation, frozen hard to the ground. I'll bet my tractor that regardsless of the thickness, the ground will freeze, unless there is enough organic decomposition in the soil to produce some heat under the insulation. Insualtion only slows the transfer of heat, it doesn't create any.
The bets on...for next winter, grinder. My 7810 against your 7510. May the warmest soil win.
Take good care of my new tractor this summer ( ) !!!!
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Advice on building a shop
BEAGLE
Won't the insulation keep the cold from penatrating the ground, or help maintain the grounds yearound temp.?
We use this method a lot and don't seem to have trouble?
Mostly under slabs in unheated buildings and under post
and pad type construction.
I have a 30' lean to on the side of my garage, concrete pads
on 2" foam pads, no heaving?
What do you have for attachments?
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Advice on building a shop
Bvance-
Something I did last minute, when building my barn. Decided to go with 2 foot overhangs rather than one foot. Also did a 12 foot lean to on one side. Rather than making that side 2 foot overhang also, I just left the full length and created about a 4 foot overhang. Sooo very happy I did that. It gave a very pleasing appearance, and practical also. Under the 4 foot overhang (48' long) we put some chairs to relax in. Also it a quick way to get out of an unexpected downpour. Sometimes will use it to just temporarily get things out of the elements or rain. Many people have stopped and commented on what a great looking barn it is. I attribute that to the overhangs. The barn red siding and higher grade green shingles don't hurt either. Since it is located by the house also, looking nice was a high priority. Oh, also in the back special ordered a 42 inch door. Can drive my motorbikes out that door with ease, rather than pushing them back out. Highly recommend the wider rear door. Little $ exra with nice payback. Best of luck, Dan.
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Advice on building a shop
grinder, just had a long conversation with a buddy of mine who owns a industrial general contracting company. His opinion is somewhere between the two of us. They have used insulation to delay frost penetration when they are against it on schedule to get foundations in the ground. Depending on the soil conditions, this delay tactic works reasonably well. With clean granular soils or engineered fills, they can delay frost penetration for a couple months.
The temperature of the ground roughly 6 feet down is about 50 degrees year round in these parts. If it doesn't get too cold too fast, the insualtion slows the escape of heat enough to delay frosty penetration, but wont stop it.
The larger the area you cover, the more effective it is. He doesn't believe a 4'x8' sheet of anything will be very effective. The more ground area you cover, the more effective the insualtion is for the center of the covered area. For a un-heated barn floor, his opinion is that if the floor area is large enough, it could delay the frost long enough at some center portion of the floor. Depending on the R-value of the insulation, it mat be able to keep the floor at the center of the barn from freezing over the course of the winter.
Since I had not considered the ambient teperature of the soil below the frost line, I will conceed the bet... partially...
I'll let you have a ride on my 7810 any time you want.
Thanks for the interesting discussion. I hope it wasn't disruptive to the thread.
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Advice on building a shop
The insulation under a slab is a good idea for heated buildings always. For unheated buildings that will never see a furnace it is a waist of money, (in my area anyway).
I insulated my frost walls inside and out and under the slab in the house. I heat it year round but only at 50 deg. in times when I am not there. Bout Mid Dec. it takes 3 days to bring the slab up to a temp that will help keep the furnace off instead of turn it on. It kills me to get there on a Fri. night and by Sun. morning when I am leaving it finally heats up to a nice warm temp. The furnace heats the house fine but I can't wait till I run the tubes on the floor and finish it off right. Couldnt put in floor heat cause I have a on demand water heater and was planning to pour the self leveling compound over the floor later when I move. I left the trim off for that purpose on the floors.
Garages? I built mine before I joined here. Big mistake!! I had no plans for a tractor that needed a taller garage door. My plans changed and I am stuck with the short doors and the ever danger of creating a unexpected opening in the walls. I have not and will not finish my walls in the garage. The mice will have 5 generations of families peeing and crapping inbetween. I built mine too samll also 28x34. Thought that was all the cement I could afford and stay married especially since I went to a 6" floor with double the rebar. The only benifit to this is that I can have an excuse to build anouther one (right this time)
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Advice on building a shop
Sure would be interesting hearing about barn sizes. What was planned, what it ended up being, and what you wish it had been. The large cement cost bothered me too. Currently cemented lean to area. But used free carpeting in the 30x48 area. Really works well to keep dust down, until I can pour the rest. Simply sweep it or shop vac it when needed. Probably like the certainty of taxs and death: Your barn will never be big enough.
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Advice on building a shop
Put down some stone dust and spray it with used motor oil.
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